THE HEDONIST Interview: Nick Funess, Izzi Rojas, Jordan Somani on Flat Affect, Parents, and Stylized Editing
[Beware: light spoilers ahead.]
In my review of The Hedonist, I wrote about the often hilarious flat affect line deliveries, its stylized editing, and the frankly beautiful use of Robocop references. So when I got the chance to sit down with writer/director/star Nick Funess, star Izzi Rojas, and editor Jordan Somani, I had a lot I wanted to talk about.
Luckily, they were happy to talk about all these aspects of their film, which follows a young man who leaves a miserable office job in Los Angeles to hire a sex worker to spend a week at his parents' Arizona home while they're away. It's a premise that may raise some eyebrows, but the unique tone and the fantastically un-commented upon co-starring of a non-binary actor make it something special that I was excited to discuss with them.
[The interview has been edited for length and clarity.]
Screen Anarchy: I'm a huge ROBOCOP fan so I have to ask how you decided that you were going to use it not just as a reference point, but also to quote it at an emotional moment. What made you pick ROBOCOP?
Nick Funess: I think I toggled between that and The Fly. I always think it's funny when characters are summarizing a real life movie and you have to work out which [movie] it is.
I enjoy that. And I wanted to do one and it was hard to find, like, "okay, it has to be just popular enough where people will know it, but also it's still a little mysterious." So we landed on RoboCop. Also because I feel like I could summarize that most easily.
Was there a line from THE FLY that you were going to potentially use?
Nick Funess: No, actually. I guess that probably ended up being the reason why I didn't use it. Yeah, like RoboCop, there was that classic line ["Dead or alive, you're coming with me"] and I could plant it later. There was more dialogue that we had to cut out about it.
More dialogue from you [Izzi]?
Izzi Rojas: Yeah, after "half robot half cop" we just kept going.
Nick Funess: Tess's character gives a whole analysis of it. But we had to kill our darling, so to speak.
We don't get the analysis of the anti-capitalist messaging of ROBOCOP.
Nick Funess: That was all in there.
So kind of on a similarly angry about capitalism note, I'm also a big Dystopia fan and I have to ask how you decided on them for the like five seconds when Reed is in the car?
Nick Funess: Wow, nice catch. Yeah, me and Jordan toggled through a few songs. We knew we wanted it to be metal. At first it was silent, and then we tried metal, and that one seemed the most ...
There's two movies that I'm always trying to replicate two scenes from. There's the Funny Games opening where they're in the car. It's the family and then they're playing like that metal music over the title sequence. I always loved that. And there's Gus Van Sant's Paranoid Park, and it's this hard cut to slow-mo in the car and punk/metal. And I always liked that so I tried to replicate it in this. I think it gets into the character's mindset at the moment as well.
That makes sense that the two of you [Nick and Jordan] worked together on picking the song. Jordan, once you had selected the song, how'd you pick the [specific section]? Or were you all working on finding the specific bit that you were going to use? And then what did it look like for you needing to do those cuts in and out of something that heavy?
Jordan Somani: I feel like me and Nick went through and found the right part. That part of the song was funny almost because there's the scream and then it's back into the silent part of the next scene. I feel like we added that in when we were trying to make the character start to feel more unhinged.
Towards the end of that LA sequence; before it was like silently driving to the bank and then I think we were like, "how can we kind of up the tension?" Because the rest of the movie before that is so quiet. So it's like, we're going to cut into this loud, listening to music in the car. And I feel like as the viewer, you're like, wait, something's changing in the character.
Well, thank you for humoring my "I need to talk about art that I like" questions. But with those out of the way, Nick, can you talk about what germinated, what brought this [to life]?
Nick Funess: So a few years ago when I was beginning the writing of [my previous feature] Young Blondes, [Stalked and Murdered], that movie was gonna be a lot different. I was gonna have the main character flee to Arizona and meet her ex-boyfriend and there was gonna be the parents. And it was gonna be similar lackadaisical vibes, shifting from a murder thing. But then that didn't really work, it was too expensive.
But it was always kind of germinating and then I was just like, "I'm leaving LA, I want to get my parents in something, I want to write a comedy." So I was just thinking of what I had available to me. I just wanted to give a go at a comedy, and I wanted to get my parents in something, and I wanted to work with Izzi. So yeah, that kind of was perfect timing.
How did y'all, Izzi and Jordan, get involved? It sounds like, Izzi, you were kind of there from the beginning?
Izzi Rojas: Yeah, kind of. I do remember because we sort of met through a writing group. And I remember you pitching this idea of this failson and he goes to Arizona. And I didn't think you were considering me for it. But I definitely was super harsh with the idea, I remember like the original idea you [Nick] had.
It's funny, seeing it and being in it as well as an actor, because in the writing group, we all saw a lot of iterations, like we're there for the whole process. So I feel like, yeah, from the beginning, honestly. But I mean, obviously, not like the true start of the idea.
Nick Funess: And then Jordan, we've known each other since school and he helped finish the editing for Young Blondes. And I wanted to give him unshaped clay for him to go off on.
Jordan Somani: Yeah, we went to school together. We hadn't really worked on anything until Young Blondes. And then I came to do sound design for Young Blondes and helped finish up the edit. I was excited to possibly work on his next thing and I read the script when he finished it, and I was immediately into it.
I remember I was reading it on vacation with my family. And I was reading the script on my phone and [showed] my mom like, "this is what I'm gonna be working on for the next few months." I was laughing out loud, I was speechless at moments. I just loved how kind of subtle it was. I was getting a lot from it about our generation and where we're at right now. But that was all buried under the words. The script was really solid so I was excited to hop in.
Izzi Rojas: Yeah, I'll just quickly reiterate that Nick is like the star of that writing group. Everyone is so sad he left LA. Like every time he put up pages, the whole room would be absolutely cracking up. So yeah I'm such a big fan.
If y'all were in a writing group together, when/how did that switch from y'all being people working together on your own writing to Nick, you saying to Izzi, "hey, do you want to be in this?" What was that moment?
Nick Funess: Yeah. I mean, we had met in the writers group, but we also had friends outside so we had just become friends in general. And I'd liked their scripts that they'd written, and I'd liked their acting. And we eventually became closer as friends. And I was just like, "I think Izzi would perfectly fit this character." I wanted to see them take the role on and, yeah it worked out.
Izzi Rojas: In the writing group we were in, whoever's up has actors put up the pages they're showing and I was always playing Tess. So I was hoping that you [Nick] would just give me the role, but I wasn't gonna assume anything. So I remember being quite excited [when Nick asked me].
Because the whole team that they [the writing group] have is pretty prolific so I knew that it was gonna come to fruition. But yeah, it wasn't like from the jump "this is your role." So I feel like every time we put it up, I'm trying my hardest wanting to impress you [Nick].
[laughter]
Just a really lengthy audition process. So the very specific kind of clipped, flat affect speaking style. Was that something, Nick, that you had always wanted? Or did that develop in collaboration when you saw Izzi and other actors saying it?
Nick Funess: Yeah, I had gotten really interested in that style. I think in Young Blondes there's hints of it. But it's not as much as this. And I had been wanting to try that more and more. And I feel like more of my comedy was kind of leaning that way, like I just found a good in to comedy with that style. And I could get a lot of jokes in.
Of course there are obvious influences. Like Yorgos [Lanthimos] gets mentioned a lot. But I was looking at a lot of precursors before him, like Aki Kaurismäki, he's really amazing.
And his movies like Ariel or The Match Factory Girl. Those were really influential.
And also more straightforward comedy, like Todd Solondz, I'm a huge fan of him. And I love how he just has these sad characters in funny situations, and I really love what he does with them.
And Hal Hartley, too, has these like experimental line deliveries. It's like flat but also theatrical. Martin Rejtman [was another]. So yeah, I kind of wanted to challenge myself and make a whole world of characters acting like this.
And it was interesting to see people giving their own versions of the deadpan. They kind of give their own take on it, especially when you go over it a million times. Because for some people it takes a little warming up. I know me and Izzi got in some spats, but I love Izzi's take on it. And I love what other people bring to it, it was just cool to see that blossom.
And then there's some actors who just kind of refused to do it. They did their own thing, like my dad. Or the parking lot attendant, her name is Darling in the movie, she just kind of did her own thing. It was nice, giving that note and even if they don't do it, it ends up psychologically swaying them in some way that could still be interesting.
So if that was something that Nick always had in mind, what was it like for you, Izzi, to have to adjust to a very unnatural way of speaking? It sounds like not always the easiest or most fun?
Izzi Rojas: Yeah, it's funny. I, too, was so excited by the challenge. It was something that I'd never been asked for as an actor, and as an actor you're always so excited for a very obvious tone.
It was interesting going from the writing group, where at first, it was really hard. I remember, like, one of the first times you [Nick] put up pages there were certain lines where you just had to give me line readings because I couldn't make it flat enough. I couldn't do it. And then it kind of became super easy, like letting go of the affect and letting go of any shifts in verbal delivery.
And the backstory that I created for the character supported that so on set it wasn't hard for me to do. At that point it had become really easy. I remember at a certain point, when we were filming the RoboCop scene, I was in the restaurant like, "I cannot stop talking like this."
Nick Funess: I remember that section of lines was the one that we would use to like hop into it, that would help us get into the tone.
Izzi Rojas: Totally. Yeah. I honestly feel like there are certain moments where I wish I did my own spin a little bit more. Because I personally am like, "fuck, I have a better [take], there's more emotions I could have brought to it." But that was the tone. Like the spats that he's saying. Like we cut a little bit more of the scene after the dinner with the ex and there's like ...
I think it's brilliant. Like everything that didn't make it was perfect, I think that the pacing was amazing. And it was my first time watching it fully at Panic Fest. But that scene specifically was supposed to [have] a little bit of heightened emotions from Tess. And I remember having a hard time with that scene specifically, giving an emotional reading but still making it that monotone, that stilted thing.
That moment when they say something and then just walk away upset?
Izzi Rojas: Yeah and it was a little bit more backstory there. I got those scenes from my reel though, the more emotional takes, I got them.
[laughter]
But Nick after those [takes] was like, "Iz, you're doing too much."
Nick Funess: Yeah, I was like "flatter, flatter." But I understand, it's counterintuitive for a lot of actors and it's weird. But I think it can unlock some cool line reads. Yeah.
On the more physical side of acting, I have to ask about the scene where Reed tries autoerotic asphyxiation and Tess dances for him. Did you choreograph that or
were you just winging it and like, "I don't know, go again, let's try something else." How'd y'all land on what ends up in the movie?
Nick Funess: Well, I mean, I knew Izzi was gonna dance nicely. I didn't have any dances in my mind. In the script, it just says "Tess dances" and I just kind of let them [Izzi] do their own thing and it worked out really nicely. [laughs]
Izzi Rojas: Yeah, I was thinking a lot about that scene and I wanted it to match the tone. I thought it would be the funniest if Tess wasn't that great at specifically a sort of stripper type dance and I'm trying to be sexy. I thought it'd be funny. Like that'd be something someone would put in the rating system, like "not that great of a sexy dancer."
But yeah, I remember I just thought of the one beginning. I was like, "it'd be so funny if they started with a stilted shimmy." And then I just kind of went from there. Yeah, we didn't rehearse it.
Nick Funess: Yeah, it was just like, "that was good, let's do it again."
Izzi Rojas: I actually do think at one point you [Nick] were like, "don't do that." Like weeks before I'd asked you, "would it be funny if I did this?" And you were like, "no." But then right before I did it again and you were like "okay, yeah, yeah that's good."
[laughter]
Nick Funess: Okay, good.
Well, I mean, incredible on the spot dance moves then because yeah, it is extremely funny and then becomes more funny when you say "Am I not being sexy enough?"
[laughter]
So question again just for Nick, but I feel like I can't not ask about the 4:3 [aspect ratio]. How did you decide on doing that?
Nick Funess: Oh, yeah, I love 4:3, I'd wanted to do it for a while. It's funny, because I think about Young Blondes sometimes, like that one should have been 4:3 and this one should have been anamorphic. But yeah, I'd love to shoot all my movies in 4:3, it's just so pretty.
A lot of my visual style comes from album art, I really like album art. And I think just being in that square does so much for it. And I think the 4:3 was a cool way to do that. And for my brain, it helps me organize and compose the shot more easily.
I feel like when people get really good at art or they're painting a big mural, they start with a grid system, and they just paint like a little square first. So I guess it's kind of like that, it's just easier for my brain to process.
Jordan, related to that, can you tell me about the wipes? Were those always there? Or was that a thing that you brought to Nick? Because especially the clock [wipe] plays very differently in 4:3 than it would in a widescreen.
Jordan Somani: Yeah, I feel like the wipes came pretty late in the game. Nick came to me and was like "let's do like freeze frames and digital zooms and wipes." To be honest, at first I was a little apprehensive about it. I had this idea when I first started working on the movie that it needed to be this kind of consistent, understated tone throughout. [I thought] we had to not do anything [too stylish] like that and just keep it really objective.
I feel like it took Nick coming to me with those ideas for me to see that the inconsistency of the style was part of the style and the tone of the movie. We experimented with a lot of different stuff that didn't end up making it but I like where we ended up with it.
Those transitions keep the audience on their toes and something feels off and doesn't really make sense. But that's part of why it works. Credit to Nick cause I definitely would have never tried that without him bringing it to me.
So then another question for you, Jordan, because I know I already asked about the Dystopia needle drop and working with/around that. But can you talk about the cold open in general? Because I feel like that's where you as editor are the star of the show. Just the incredible tone setting, and specifically, the first cut of the movie being a hard cut to a close-up of a dick. How'd y'all arrive on that?
Jordan Somani: That was there from day one in the script. So that never really changed. It changed in the sense that I think, at some point, it was the actual first shot.
[laughter]
Nick Funess: And it's now the second shot.
Jordan Somani: It's now the closeup of Nick['s face] as he's kind of preparing for it [genital warts treatment]. And then it goes to that. So it's 10% less of a jump scare.
Yeah, I mean, that whole [cold open] part was probably the most difficult part of the whole post process honestly, just because it just changed so much. Once we get to Arizona, everything else is pretty linear. So it was hard to rearrange anything. We cut some stuff, but in that first 10 minutes we had the freedom to really fuck with it and move things around.
It ended up being way shorter and tighter than it was in the script. And even in the first cut.
Izzi Rojas: It was like 15 minutes at first right?
Nick Funess: Yeah, it was like 15-20 minutes in the early, early versions. Like multiple threads.
Jordan Somani: There's full story beats that we ended up cutting. And it was tough. Cause there's some scenes in there that we loved, like really good character moments. But I think it was worth it to cut them.
Because I feel like we really just needed to establish where the character was at mentally to motivate him crashing out and making this bold change in his life. And we didn't really need everything, like it was good character insight but it was more effective to just give a glimpse of that, to establish where he's at. And when he makes the change then we're learning more about him throughout the rest of the movie.
But yeah a lot of great scenes were cut. Maybe they'll find their way into like a deleted scenes.
[laughter]
The extended edition.
So as a person who has "gender" going on, I love that it's never talked about. You just use they/them for Tess. Was that something you had always planned on? Was there a point where maybe you were going to talk about it? And then Izzi, as a non binary actor, was that something that was appealing? To be in a movie where you're just a character, and it's not a whole thing?
Nick Funess: Yeah, I remember me and Izzi having early conversations about that. I'd wanted to do that, like you said in your review, I didn't want to remark on it. And I remember some people we gave the script were like, "you should have a whole scene explaining that."
I was like, "eh, I don't know." Yeah, it just felt right to do that.
Izzi Rojas: It was incredibly appealing. Like it's very rarely done. It's something I'm doing in my own writing, for myself, like not wanting it to be a big deal.
But I will say the main gender thing, just as the actor -- and Nick gave me total freedom to decide -- I was like, "okay, yes, Tess is non binary, I suppose, but I still feel like a Nevada turned Arizona sex worker would have shaved legs and shaved armpits and perform femininity in a very traditional way."
And so that was the plan for me at first was to not have it ever remarked upon, not like ever be a she/her or anything, but to perform like a she/her maybe would. Thinking that from a business person's point of view, Tess would be like, "no, that's what my clients would want."
You can't really tell though, because ultimately I decided not to [go that way] and there is bikini line pubic hair representation in there. Because yeah, I think ultimately that was the better choice, just letting it rock and not remarking upon it. Not changing myself too much.
Was that a result of you coming on board early and being around while Nick was writing it?
Nick Funess: Yeah, I'd say so
Izzi Rojas: I don't wanna blow up your [Nick's] spot but I feel like your original idea wasn't a non-binary person.
Nick Funess: Yeah, Izzi coming on played a part in doing that.
Nick, what was it like working with your parents? And Izzi, what was it like playing a sex worker with your writer/director/co-star's parents?
Nick Funess: It was great working with my parents. They were just happy that I was doing it. They have been so supportive. My dad has this kind of actorly vibe anyway and I know he wanted to do something like that. 'Cause he kind of did some theater and stand up and actor stuff in his youth so he was excited to have a debut.
And I think they're so funny and great and quirky, I just wanted to work with them and see what they did and see what they're like on camera. My mom had a little voiceover cameo in Young Blondes. I had her and my dad acting more and they were great sports. And I remember my mom saying, "this is like top five coolest things I've ever done" and I was like "alright, thanks mom."
Izzi Rojas: Yeah, they were so amazing to work with. I think them being your actual parents, and us being in their actual house with that actual mural with their faces on the wall was all very helpful as the character of Tess. Where I'm like "ok, clocking every single thing, seems like this kid does have money." It was definitely really helpful.
It's not often you'll get on set as an actor and the other actors want to act with you off camera, but I feel like your dad specifically would say things as if I were Tess. And your mom was so dedicated to the tone and she was trying to help your dad with the tone too. It was great, I loved working with them.
Nick, you already talked about some people you were inspired by, but Jordan and Izzi, are there any films, performances, et cetera that y'all were drawing from for this?
Jordan Somani: I mean Nick's a cinephile so he sent me a million movies to watch for editing. The Cathedral that was one for the tone. Buffalo 66 was another one.
Yeah, there were a bunch of movies. Honestly, one of the most helpful things Nick did was send me a playlist called "Songs for Reed" and I remember listening to that a lot while working on the movie and that really helped me understand the character more so those [songs] were very influential.
Izzi Rojas: Lauren Bacall in To Have and Have Not. Her classic look over the bridge of her nose. I told myself that Tess had seen and loved her performance in that film and therefore made their sex worker personality based on Lauren Bacall.
Also, Leaving Las Vegas, Elisabeth Shue, I'd seen that while we were preparing for this and that was also [influential]. Her sexiness in a subtle way was so inspiring.
