Dain Said Talks BUNOHAN

Malaysia's Dain Said first appeared in the pages of ScreenAnarchy with Dukun. The debut feature from the prominent commercial director was a shocking, ripped from the headlines affair - a true story revolving around black magic and murder. Or at least that's what we're told. Nobody really knows because the film was ultimately blocked from release in Malaysia and has scarcely been seen since its completion.

But he is back now with his sophomore effort. Titled Bunohan the film is the story of a family caught up in a web of violence that may destroy them all. The first trailer for Bunohan was recently released to great response around the world and I had the chance to talk to its creator a little while back. Read on to learn more.


TB: We should maybe start with your previous film, which we covered a fair bit at ScreenAnarchy. Can you tell us a bit about Dukun and what happened with it as far as release?

DS: Okay, yes. I'm laughing a bit only because that film seems to have its own haunting. I don't think it'll ever rest, if I can put it that way.

The film actually started with a friend of mine who was a producer. She came out of marketing at Buena Vista. She called me out of the blue and asked me if I wanted to do this film. I had always wanted to do a film and thought it would be a great story because not often do we get films that are based on a real story that happened in Malaysia. So I said yes and right off we had a meeting and we planned it and she said "Can we get this going within this time?" It was about three months for the script to be written. I immediately said, "Yeah, I know the right person." He is a playwright here. As you know part of the film was set in court and this friend of mine was familiar with legal language, court systems and so on. But he's also a playwright. So that's what happened and we went out and shot it.

And, actually, everything was cleared, you know, from the very moment we said yes. We spoke to lawyers and everyone and nothing could have touched us, really, but I think like everything else in Malaysia, certain things happened. Things are quite political. I think there was some internal political stuff that came to a head but I don't really know much more. I can tell you a hundred different stories about what happened but at the end of the day there are so many different versions of what happened and nobody really knows. So, for me, I just moved on. The moment I heard ... I'm not surprised when these things happen in Malaysia so I moved on.

My regret is for the actors and the performers who put literally a hundred and fifty percent into the film. That's my only sadness about it, because there are some great performances out of it.

TB: Now going from that to Bunohan, did that color how you approached the degree of violence that you have in this film? I know it's not black magic or witchcraft here, which I understand was part of the issue, but are there censorship concerns around Bunohan? Does this factor in to why you brought international producers in on this one?

DS: Actually we didn't think about that. What we did, when my producer Nandita and I started discussing this story, we tried in general not to think about issues of censorship. So when I started my research and started writing I just thought I'd just write it as how I feel and we'd take it from there. So far I don't think there's any reason why there should be any issue with censorship.

TB: It's interesting to me looking at this trailer and having read the script. It seems to me from outside that the Malaysian industry is split into two different parts that don't really mingle, other than maybe somebody like James Lee. On the one side you've got the obvious commercial product that's very, very localized. On the other side you've got the arthouse films that have been travelling on the international circuit. But there's very little that bridges the two. And it seems like you're living a little bit in that in-between zone where hopefully you'll be able to sell it at home but it's also very artistic.

DS: Thank you, yes. I'm glad you brought it up because while we have our references we certainly didn't say "Let's try and make a film that is between the two poles."  But what we did was just say "Let's try and make a good story." And Nandita knowing the kind of areas and the kind of films I like and the kind of direction I really wanted to move in in terms of my storytelling we just felt that we'd just go ahead. And that's why censorship didn't come into it at all, though we still don't know for sure what's going to happen there.

But back to your question. I laugh a bit because when we showed it to people here, and we did show it to a few local companies and distributors, I think it was a bit difficult for them precisely because of that point. They didn't know how to place it. That's my reading. They didn't know how to place it. Even though some of them did get it, it was still difficult because it didn't conform to the usual genre boundaries. That made it, I guess, quite tough for them. They do like it, but a few people did put it the same way you did. It's neither arthouse nor the commercial commercial films that come out of Malaysia. But we are happy with it, and I think a lot of people are, and I think that's one of the things that our contacts with the outside and international distributors and agents were really happy with about it. Why they were really happy to be associated with it. And that's where we are today.

TB: Who are your touchpoints as far as other filmmakers that you're looking at? It doesn't seem that there's much from the Malaysian scene that you'd be comparable to, but I thought I saw a bit of early Pen-Ek Ratanaruang and that sort of filmmaking in the trailer.

DS: Yes, I know of his work but not all of it. I'll take that as a compliment.

Yes, I guess my references are really some filmmakers in the region and those outside that aren't just references for Malaysians but for everyone. Artists and writers have their peers or their mentors or, you know, gurus that they look to. And I guess for me I've always loved American films as much as I love European films or Japanese.

Looking at my film now, if it falls into what you say right now, I'm glad because I think if you look at the context of what is happening it's very difficult for me to say "Let's make an arthouse film," because we are independent and there are commercial considerations. I want to be able to make my next film and pay the banks back, basically. It's not - I don't know if this should be said or not - a lot of time in this industry people take out bank loans or whatever and just move on and bridges are burned and they don't really care.

I think it's an untested area that we're going into and it is a challenge and sometimes a bit nerve wracking but we hope for the best. And I think what's actually quite lovely right now is that because of the indie filmmakers you're starting to get a diversity in Malaysian film that hasn't been there before. Nandita and I are happy to be a part of that, to be a part of this new growth.

TB: Can you tell me a bit about your two lead actors? You asked a lot of them physically and they certainly seemed to be up to it. Where did you find these guys?

DS: Okay. Let me talk about the guy who acted as the assassin. Faizal Hussein. He's been around and was a heart throb in Malaysian films in the 80s. I think he's a good actor, I worked with him on Dukun and we got along really well. I found working with him really inspiring, it was quite easy to work with him. He is really, really professional. The things that he had to do, without question he would just go ahead and get into the swamps and roll around with it. He was actually the male lead in Dukun.

Zahiril Adzim - the guy who acted as Adil, the younger brother, the kick boxer - I had seen him perform in theatres. There is a small group called Rumah Anak Theatre and they are a small experimental group. I had seen two or three of the plays that they had put on, and he puts on quite an electrifying performance. Particularly when he's partnered with the other guy who is supposed to be his friend in Bunohan. They fight in the end. I really liked the relationship that they have in theatre so I thought I could do something with that in the film.

I had also seen him in Karaoke, actually. And I knew then that he does theatre but he also translates well to film. What I wanted was someone who looked somewhat vulnerable and he had that vulnerability in his face, in his physicality. He did not have the hardness of the assassin. Faizal's face is very angular and has deep lines in his face. But when you look at Zahiril's face there's a certain kind of vulnerability, as if life hadn't yet got to him. I wanted that even though he was in a world filled with corruption and violence. There was still something soft and I like to think that in his performances, in the dramatic scenes with his father and with his mentor, there is a certain softness there in his relationship with people. I wanted those two sides.

TB: Did he actually have a background in fighting before you cast him or did you have to train him up?

DS: Oh, no. We had to train him up. We put him through a training period of about three months. We had to train him in terms of the fighting, we got a trainer in. Of course I knew that I did not want an Ong Bak style of fighting, I wanted it to be as realistic as I could get given the circumstances and where we were shooting. We shot in some difficult locations, in difficult conditions, because of the light. Such as shooting on the cusp of the monsoon. Shooting on location, because the locations were part and parcel of the characters in the movie. The training I had hoped to take up north to where the location was because kickboxing is a prevalent part of the community and it's very interesting to see it within that community, but we did not have the time so I had to engage a trainer and a choreographer here in Kuala Lumpur. We put him though that training and he was very, very committed to it. That was good.

TB: What are you aiming for as far as release? When are you going to be complete?

DS: We're hoping to release it around the end of the third quarter. Somewhere between the third quarter and final quarter this year.