Interview: Hatchet II Director Adam Green

With the follow-up to his slasher hit HATCHET hitting theaters - unrated, no less! - this Friday, writer/director Adam Green sat down to talk about the state of modern horror, the surprise wide release of HATCHET II in its unrated form, and a wholly unwanted battle with the MPAA.

October 1st, HATCHET II is coming out.

Yeah, very excited.

You have the HALLOWEEN II thing going on with this film opening right at the end of the last one, right?

Yeah, it's not even the type of thing where it recaps the first one. It starts on the same frame that we ended on in the last one, which was always the intention. So, I'm thrilled that everything kind of came to fruition so we could continue this story because I know a lot of people, when the first one ended, were kind of confused. They were like, "what?" But it's all going to pay off.

Now, this one is going to be more of a revenge picture. Marybeth (Danielle Harris) has put together a team and they're going after Crowley.

Yeah, I think with any sequel you need to up the ante a little bit. And that's something I always loved about ALIENS - it wasn't a bunch of defenseless people. And this time around, Marybeth is going back for revenge but she's also bringing a bunch of older, wiser, more seasoned characters with her. And they're all armed with weapons to fight back, which I think makes the kills this time around more interesting.

How were you able to keep Crowley an effective villain when you have a bunch of badasses going after him?

I guess that's what people will have to see. But in this movie, Marybeth learns the full story of who he is, what he is, and where he came from. And that's one of the things I'm most excited about, because with the first one we kind of left that sort of nebulous, which I think most slasher films do with their first film. Is he a ghost? Is he undead? Did he just not die the first time? What is he?

That's all explained in this one. He's pretty much virtually unstoppable, which makes it pretty fun at conventions when fans ask, "Who would win in a fight? Victor Crowley or Jason?" And I think once people hear Victor Crowley's true mythology no one can really stop him.

One of the cool things I heard you you say at Comic Con this year was that you have HATCHET planned out across three or four movies. It seems like there's an interesting thing going on with a lot of young directors of creating universes - not necessarily franchises - for their characters.

For you, did that just grow out of the first HATCHET or did you envision a wider universe for your story from the beginning?

We knew exactly what HATCHET II was going to be, to the point that we showed weapons he was going to use in this one in the first one. When I was explaining to the production designer why we needed to see this 6-foot long chainsaw in the shot he wanted to know why this had to be in here when we were trying to cut costs. And I explained that in the second one, he's going to put that through two guys at the same time.

So, my makeup effects team and my production design team knew what was going to happen in the second one. But it was one of those things where we didn't really talk about it too much, and there maybe 5 or 6 people who knew what the story was going to be, and part of that is because you don't want to jinx it.

HATCHET III, there is already an idea for it - actually there are two or three ideas, dramatically different ideas for it. But rather than getting too caught up in that, at this point we want to wait and see what the reaction is, what the response is to HATCHET II.

I will most likely not do another HATCHET movie - I probably won't write and direct it, unless it's like this one where they'll wait several years and let me do some other stuff first. But no matter what, I still want to be very involved and handpick whoever is going to do it. Because this is like my baby and it took forever to get it made. And I definitely would love to see people top the one before it instead of going the route of the 80's movies where they got worse and worse. So, inherently built into this there's a mythology that allows the story to move forward instead recycling the same story every time.

You mentioned them letting you wait a little while between making HATCHET and HATCHET II. It sounds like you've been getting a decent amount of support from a production standpoint from the studio and a lot of support from the fans. Do you think that made it a lot easier for you to go the unrated route for the release?

Yeah, I think one thing that's important to point out is that I'm sort of the face of the unrated release and when you read articles about it, it's like "Adam Green faces off against the ratings board blah, blah, blah." And really, while to some extent that's true, this is really only happening because of Dark Sky, the distributor of HATCHET II. They did something that I've never seen in this business: they stuck to their word. It's very much a filmmaker-friendly company. And everyone thinks that they are, but they're also a business model.

So, with Dark Sky, what I told them what I wanted to do with HATCHET II: "You need to understand this is going to be twice as violent as the first one - twice as gory." And we had such a hard time with the first one with the ratings board, unjustly, that I don't want to have to go through it again. I don't want to have to put the movie in theaters just to get the theatrical release. And it's castrated, and neutered.

Because with the first one, it was devastating that they did to it. I was so sure it was going to get an R rating - all of us were - because the movie is so fun, it's silly, there's nothing realistic about it. There's no sex, no drug use, very little swearing. All of a sudden, we get blasted with an NC-17 and we had to keep re-cutting it and re-cutting it so that by the time it came out in theaters the punchlines were sort of taken out of the movie. The excess was kind of cut out of the movie.

I don't think anyone is going to disagree with me that that's unfair when there's movies out there that have sadistic rape and depraved torture. And those are movies by major studios by the time they come out. So, when you're an independent movie, there's no one to fight for you and they're very,very hard on you. So, I wanted HATCHET II to go straight to video because I just wanted to make the movie I wanted to make. And the audience for these movies is mainly on video.

But Dark Sky said let's send it to the ratings board and see what happens. And the same thing happened again, they gave us an NC-17. We cut almost two minutes of gore out of the movie and they still came back with another NC-17.

So, Dark Sky brought the movie to (theater chain) AMC, who they knew were fans of the first film. And they just showed it to them, and they went crazy and they loved it. And we asked how would they feel is these seven kills weren't in the movie anymore and they said, "You can't do that!"

So yeah, next week it's a slasher sequel and all the other great things about it, but we also have the largest theatrical release of an unrated horror film in 25 years is amazing. I hope that people put their money where their mouths are and come see this movie so that the ratings board won't have this kind of cinematic tyranny and people can see movies the way they were supposed to be seen. I mean, this is just an example to lead the way because it shouldn't have been NC-17. And I'm sure people are going to walk out of it and not understand why this movie couldn't have gotten an R rating, because it should have.

Yeah, it's really really violent but it's also really, really fun. And no one's going to leave this movie feeling like their eyes just got raped - they're gonna walk out of it smiling.

So it sounds like what you're saying is that context should be a part of the ratings process when they look at movies. Do you feel like it's a case of the ratings board overlooking the context in which the movie was made and who it was intended for?

I wish it was that simple. But, I actually think there's more politics involved. I actually fought back for HATCHET I, I had a trial. And my advice to other filmmakers is don't do that because now I'm a marked man. We had an actual trial, and if you see the Kirby Dick documentary THIS FILM IS NOT YET rated you'll see the exact people I had to deal with.

What they do is, if you want to challenge the rating because you think it's unfair, first you have to sign something accepting the rating - which, then, they notify everyone that that's the rating you have. Then, what they do is show the movie to professionals who aren't associated with the ratings board. It's supposed to be theater owners and operators, other directors, and studio executives who come in, watch the movie, listen to the director's side of the argument, listen to the rater's side of the argument and then assess whether you're treated fairly. But the whole setup is a sham. I know everybody in the industry and I didn't recognize anyone in that room, and they won't tell you their names or who they are and they stay anonymous.

And they were all old. Some of them were like full-on, elderly people. And they showed the movie and they didn't laugh, they didn't enjoy it at all. And I made my case - I used THE HILLS HAVE EYES remake, because that had just come out - why is it that it's okay to have a have a scene where a woman's being raped in front of her baby, and then forced to lactate, then they bite off the head of a parakeet and run off with the baby to eat, all the while dad is crucified outside and on fire?

But if I have a swamp monster that's obviously a man in a rubber suit chasing a bunch of comedians around the swamp with a gas-powered belt sander--which doesn't exist-- and the violence is so ridiculous that blood is shooting 40 feet in the air, how is this where you guys draw the line?

And they wouldn't look me in the face. No would look at me, no one would say anything and they kept the NC-17 rating. I learned the ultimate hard way that when you stand up for yourself you pay for it.

And with FROZEN, we had a version of the movie that had no swearing in it, and we thought that this is easily a PG-13 movie, because there was no violence, or sex, or swearing. And they gave us an R, and the producer called and asked why and they said it was because it was "too terrifying." That's not grounds for an R rating, they have to address the content. And they just said, "Talk to your director, he remembers HATCHET."

And now, the fact that I skirted around them with this release probably means I'm going to get killed in my sleep (laughs).

It's scary. And I don't want to fight with them. I don't care - I don't want to be a martyr, I don't care. And it's in some ways hilarious that the HATCHET movies are what they have a problem with when, as a society, we live in a time when there's a new genre of film called "torture porn." And that's insane! I mean, there's nothing in these movies that wasn't being done in 1984.

And I really want to see HATCHET get a strong per-screen average. I mean, we're only on something like 65 screens so you're not going to see this movie making millions of dollars or register in the top 10 box office. But the industry looks at the per-screen average and I hope that can help the next guy who comes along.

But, it's hard, because the horror fans these days, their bark is worse than their bite. And for all their complaints about remakes and the lack of originality, they're the first ones to see them. And a lot of fans say, "That's not true, not all of us." And maybe not, but I do a lot of conventions and appearances and speaking and things like that. And in 2007 I was doing this convention in Texas and I asked what the audience thought about the state of the genre with all of these remakes. And everyone in the audience--about 1500 people--booed. So then I said, "How many of you went to go see THE HILLS HAVE EYES 2, the sequel to the remake?" Everyone raised their hand and groaned. Then I asked, "How many of you went to see BEHIND THE MASK: THE RISE OF LESLIE VERNON" which was playing in 4 theaters in a 10-mile radius of this hotel. And not one of them raised their hand. And then they laughed and said, "Oh yeah, I guess you're right."

And when HATCHET came out I went to the theater and I watched people from the Fangoria conventions, the die-hard fans in their EVIL DEAD 2 t-shirts go see the HALLOWEEN remake and not go see HATCHET.

So, it's tough. I don't know what I'm expecting to happen next week. And I'm hoping that the tide will turn and they'll all show up, but I'm realistic and it sort of remains to be seen. But I would love to get that call on Monday and hear that the movie did $3000 or $5000 per screen and we're starting to take it back. I mean, that would be great.

Independent movies are so hard to get a theatrical release these days. Like with us, you're not going to see national TV promotions and buses and billboards--we just don't have the money for that. But it is nice to see something like PARANORMAL ACTIVITY, because it's great when you see that happen. Because 10 years ago Lionsgate were the pioneer of all of that. Because they took movies like CABIN FEVER and SAW and treated them like studio films. So when they opened, everyone knew about it. And they performed beautifully.

But no one is doing that anymore.

Speaking to the state of the industry right now, do you think we're still stuck in that cycle of remakes? Because it feels like we're almost out of movies to remake.

That's the hope. But what we're starting to see is that they're starting to remake more obscure titles now. And I can understand what's going on with these studio execs now who aren't like the ones 20 years ago who were moguls and who knew what a good story was and they prided themselves on being entrepreneurs. Now, they're own by Nabisco or Coke and these corporations and it's all about the bottom line and a lot easier to get fired. So you can just say, "We're going to take this film, it's a remake that grossed this much, and the title has this much awareness, and we're going to take this TV actor who has this much awareness and this much foreign value." It's like a mathematic system to get these movies made. And they're going to keep making them as long as we pay money to see them.

You know, I would always joke that Hollywood would make Holocaust animated comedies is that's what people would pay to see. They don't care, as long as the movie is going to make money. So it's a shame when movies like TRICK R TREAT, or LET THE RIGHT ONE IN--which actually did okay theatrically--don't get a chance because they're afraid they won't do well. So, if we start supporting this stuff we'll see more of it.

It's in our hands.

HATCHET feels like it's been successful and has gotten in the public consciousness in a way that some of these other films haven't. Can you envision 20 years down the line some executive leaning back and saying, "We should remake this!"

Oh, without a doubt. I've even heard from some of these places that the rate of the remakes is about 15 years. And I'm not even against remakes - some of my favorite films are remakes. I think John Carpenter's THE THING is one of the greatest films ever made. Even the TEXAS CHAINSAW remake, as unpopular as it is to say this, I thought it was fantastic. So, there's nothing wrong with remakes, it's just the balance is so wrong that that's all we have.

And to answer your question, 20 years from now--you can look at something like the PROM NIGHT remake which grossed like 50 million--in 20 years, the new generation of horror fans who are discovering this stuff on video, are they going to be wearing their PROM NIGHT remake shirts to conventions or are they going to be wearing their HATCHET army shirts with Victor Crowley. And I'm 100% certain that Victor Crowley has the longevity even though he might not be getting the same treatment that the remakes get.

And that's the thing with horror. We're a culture and sometimes it's like wine --you don't know what's going to last. And you look at something like EVIL DEAD--which wasn't a box office success or a mainstream movie--but now, anyone who's into horror knows that movie and loves that movie. And sometimes you have to hang in there. So when some critics were quick to say that Victor Crowley is a new icon a horror, you don't know that yet. You gotta wait and see.

It seems like it's all about creating a mythology people want, right? Creating characters that the viewers are interested in. Because to be honest, when you look at some of the older slasher flicks you can barely remember anything about the victims.

Well, I think that one of the things that endeared people to HATCHET was the sense of humor. And the things that I looked to when I made HATCHET were FRIGHT NIGHT and AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON, which took two tired genres--the werewolf and the vampire--and Tom Holland and John Landis asked, what if you did this and made it massively entertaining? What if you still made it a horror movie but it wasn't just about the body count.

And that was my goal with HATCHET I. I think that's why it did find a wider audience. I think people who weren't necessarily into slasher movies liked it because it was fun. Especially because it came out during a period where it was like nothing like the other stuff that was coming out at the time. And it wasn't people getting tortured and it wasn't depraved, it was just fun. And the thing with slasher movies is that people go to these things because they want to see people get slashed. So, it's really hard to keep all the characters serious and brooding and endear to the audience. So if you can make them laugh or smile, then you have them.

And the second HATCHET is a bit darker than the first one, just because the trajectory of the story is a bit more serious. But we were still able to bring in some fun and likable characters that you can enjoy watching as you inevitably wait for them to get killed.

That's really the hardest part of making a slasher film: the audience is literally 50/50 split. Some of them just want to see the effects and the kills, so anytime that's not happening they get bored. And they say the acting is terrible, the writing is terrible.They're not terrible, they just want to see people get killed. And the other half wants to see characters and story and I'll always err on the side of story. Otherwise, you could just make a sizzle reel of special effects, and if I wanted to do that I could and just stick it on Youtube.

So, I take my time with that stuff and let people spend time with the characters and spend time with them so they care when they get killed. Not like they're going to cry when they get killed but at least they'll know their name.

We just had the premiere in London last week and all the reviews were great, the response was just insane with people just cheering and laughing. But then when we were doing the autograph line there were people who complained that it took a while for the first kill. And I'm like, "Dude, there were six kills in the first 15 minutes!" And they say, "I know, but after that it took a while." And they next person will come through and say they loved the story and the actors were great and it was really fun.

So you can never win.

You've actually jumped across a couple of different types of movies over the last few years. You mentioned FROZEN--which had a pretty solid critical response--and that was more of a thriller. Do you think to yourself that you'd like to get into different genres?

Yeah, I want to do everything. I think every filmmaker wants to do everything, and I think there are very few filmmakers who want to do the same thing. And if there's one thing that I could go back in time and do the exact same way, it was when I was making HATCHET, I knew they were going to pigeonhole me as the fratboy slasher guy. So right after I got done making HATCHET and worked on SPIRAL with Joel Moore. And SPIRAL kind of got buried in the wake of HATCHET's release. But, in the industry, it's something that made something like FROZEN possible.

Because slasher movies are such a niche and intellectuals don't really think there's anything to them, they don't think they even take any talent. So, when you have something like SPIRAL which is so completely different it really helps. And the same with FROZEN which is completely different from HATCHET.

My inspirations with FROZEN were LIFEBOAT and JAWS. And when you look at two films made by two of the greatest filmmakers that ever lived--Hitchcock and Spielberg--even if you miss, hopefully it turns out alright.

I constantly want to be doing different things and I do think that HATCHET has allowed me to do different things with my career. Look, it's opening in theaters on Friday and FROZEN is opening at the same time in the U.K.. So in a week's span I have two completely different movies coming out.

And some of the other filmmakers I know are calling and asking how I can do that. But the thing is I've been going non-stop since HATCHET came out five years ago, so hopefully there's a break on the horizon so I can enjoy this.

Can you talk about any of your upcoming projects? I know you've got KILLER PIZZA on the way.

KILLER PIZZA is the one I'm most excited about, because it's like THE GOONIES or MONSTER SQUAD-type movie. And 1492, Chris Columbus's company, hired me to write it. So, that's the thing I'm most excited about now.

But at the same time I've already finished my segment of CHILLERAMA, which is an anthology movie I'm working on with Joe Lynch, Tim Sullivan, and Adam Rifkin. Kind of like a CREEPSHOW-movie, except that it fits together in the context of being the last night of this drive-in and they're going to be showing rare prints of 4 movies that no one has ever seen before. My segment is already done, and when we announced CHILLERAMA at Frightfest in London we actually showed my segment in its entirety--"The DIary of Anne Frankenstein." It's a black and white movie, and to do something that's straight comedy was terrific to do.

And I got to reunite with Joel Moore which was terrific because I know a lot of people have been waiting for us to do that. He plays Adolf Hitler in my segment and everyone speaks German. But Joel doesn't speak German, so his subtitles are correct but he's just making up his own language. Which is really funny but was a real challenge on-set since no one could understand one another. So we'd have to run through it in English a couple of times so that everyone was on the same page. And then when we would shoot we didn't know what was coming out.

And when is that coming out?

It should be out--I want to say this to be safe--a year from now, so next fall. But it could be sooner than that because right now we're in post-production.

I get excited every time I hear about a new horror anthology anytime one comes out. But they get treated so poorly--you mentioned TRICK R TREAT. So is that ever sitting in the back of you mind, that someone somewhere is going to sit on the movie?

We're prepared for that. And we have a really good idea of what we want to do with it and it more of a labor of love. And originally, Tim Sullivan and Adam Rifkin kind of took Lynch and I out to dinner and presented this idea like two years ago. So we just raised all the money on our own and kind of made it in secret. One of the things we'd like to do--a lot of people, especially the younger fans, have never had the chance to go to a drive-in. So one of the things we'd like is tour the film during all the big horror conventions during the summer and screen it outside and let people see it the way it was intended. We don't have delusions of grandeur.

Each segment is different because we tackle each era of cinema. And I think it's going to go by really fast and it'll feel like you're watching four different movies. So, I don't think it'll be on 3000 screens or anything like that.